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Svarīgs demokrātijas elements ir pašpārliecināti cilvēki, kas prot padarīt savas balsis skaļas.

Intervija ar britu spoken word dzejniekiem Holliju Maknišu un Pītu Berderu jeb Pete The Temp.

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Dzejnieki Hollija Makniša (Hollie McNish) un Pīts Berders (Pete Bearder aka Pete the Temp) ir vieni no spilgtākajiem spoken word pārstāvjiem, kas kā apliecinājumu savai meistarībai ir ieguvuši godalgotas vietas dzejas slamos daudzās pasaules valstīs. Savās prasmēs viņi dalās ar citiem, uzstājoties un pasniedzot lekcijas un radošās darbnīcas.

Izziņai: Spoken Word
Īpaša dzejas forma, kas tiek rakstīta uz papīra, un tiek pausta skaļos, ritmiskos lasījumos auditorijai. Spoken Word dzejai raksturīga improvizācija, vārdu spēles, bagātīgas dzejas frāzes. Tā ir daudz agresīvāka nekā tradicionālā dzeja. Agresīvās un citādās pasniegšanas formas dēļ dzejā bieži tiek aizskartas sociālas un politiskas problēmas, kas rosina sabiedrību domāt.
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Kādi ir iemesli, kāpēc aizrāvāties ar spoken word?

Pīts Berders: Mani ļoti iedvesmoja cilvēki, kuri runāja par politiku jautrā un saistošā veidā. Pagāja vairāki gadi, kamēr iemācījos, kā šādus jautājumus padarīt cilvēkiem pieejamus, kā runāt par lietām, kuras mani aizrauj formā, kas būtu jautra, fiziski un emocionāli aizraujoša, tomēr intelektuāla un publiku negarlaikotu.

Hollija Makniša: Mana motivācija ir līdzīga. Es sāku rakstīt un rakstīju daudz, kad studēju augstskolā. Mani kaitināja, ka liela daļa pētījumu, kurus es lasīju, it īpaši, kad studēju attīstības ekonomiku, bija rakstīti tik intelektuālā valodā. Man tie šķita interesanti, tomēr tikai daži patiešām tos lasīja vai gribēja lasīt. Tad es sāku rakstīt dzejoļus. Tie bija balstīti uz šiem dokumentiem, tomēr daudz vienkāršāki. Kad sāku tos lasīt publikai, likās, ka daudziem cilvēkiem tie patīk un viņi lūdza man turpināt. Laikam tas mani motivē – ja redzu, ka cilvēki saista sevi ar dzejoli, ja liekas, ka viņi kaut ko no dzejoļa iemācās.

Pete Bearder aka Pete the Temp
Foto - Ingus Bajārs

P.Berders: Spoken word sastāv no debatēm un intimitātes, ko nodrošina uzstāšanās „dzīvajā”. Nav īpaši liela atšķirība starp cilvēku, kurš uzstājas, un auditoriju. Tas ir ļoti atklāts veids, kā izmantot vienas personas mākslu, viņa vārdus, viņa ticību. Dažreiz man ir sajūta, ka kopā ar auditoriju dodos garīgā ceļojumā, un mēs kopā dodamies uz kādu konkrētu vietu. Mēs redzam sevi citos. Tas ir ļoti vērtīgi - pasaulē, kur cilvēki kļūst aizvien nošķirtāki viens no otra. Politiski tas ir tikpat vērtīgi kā plašs publisks diskurss, diskusija. Runa ir arī par cilvēku laimīguma pakāpi. Mūsdienu mediju pasaulē mēs tiekam nodalīti viens no otra, tāpēc veidot vietas un momentus, kuros valda kolektīvā empātija, ir visai jauki.


Ko jūs vēlaties sasniegt dzejojot?

Hollie McNish
Foto - Ingus Bajārs

H.Makniša: Vienmēr, kad esmu rakstījusi dzeju, tas ir bijis veids kā atbrīvoties no smaguma, kas mani nomāc. Vienalga, vai rakstīju par puišiem, kad man bija 15 gadi, vai rakstiem avīzēs, kam nepiekritu.... Man patīk divas tēmas: imigrācija – šo tēmu pārzinu labi, jo esmu daudz mācījusies par to. Es jūtu, ka Anglijā prese imigrāciju atspoguļo negatīvi. Vēl es daudz rakstu par problēmām, ar kurām saskaras sievietes – sieviešu tiesībām, kā ir būt mātei. Es bieži jaucu kopā personisko ar politisko, veidoju abu šo motīvu kombināciju. Publikai nekad nerādu tikai ļoti personisku dzeju.

P.Berders: ... un bieži universālo var saskatīt personiskajā, vai ne? Tāpēc runāt par lielām problēmām nozīmē runāt par savām attiecībām. Politika ir garlaicīga. Lielāko daļu cilvēku garlaiko runas par demogrāfiju un ģeopolitiskiem konceptiem. Bet es esmu redzējis, kā ļoti sarežģītus politiskus un globālus jautājumus spoken word mākslinieki izskaidro pusstundas laikā, stāstot konkrētus personiskos stāstus.

H.Makniša: Īpaši tas attiecas uz jauniem cilvēkiem. Tas, ka strādāju skolās, palīdz man rakstīt dzejoļus, kurus saprastu pat 8 gadus veci bērni. Pat viņi var domāt par politiskām problēmām, klausoties dzejā. Viņi nepaņemtu laikrakstu un nemeklētu internetā informāciju par politiku. Tomēr viņi uzklausa šīs problēmas ar kādas mākslas formas palīdzību – vienalga, vai tā ir gleznošana, dzeja vai mūzika.

P.Berders: ASV skolās spoken word ir daļa no mācību programmas trīs iemeslu dēļ – lai veicinātu lasīt un rakstīt prasmes, pārliecinātību uzstājoties un pilsoniskuma dēļ. Svarīgs demokrātijas elements ir pašpārliecināti cilvēki, kas prot padarīt savas balsis skaļas. Tāpēc es uzskatu, ka spoken word ir jāmāca skolās, lai panāktu lielāku skaitu iesaistītu un aktīvu pilsoņu veselīgā demokrātijas sistēmā.


Kas nākotnē sagaida šo mākslas žanru?

H.Makniša: Aizraujoši, ka visur, kur es dodos, tas aug. Apvienotajā Karalistē šogad pirmoreiz izpārdeva biļetes uz spoken word mākslinieku priekšnesumu teātrī. Šogad bija arī pirmā reize, kad Edinburgas festivālā spoken word bija izveidota sava kategorija. Apvienotajā Karalistē šis mākslas veids attīstās dažādos veidos. Skolās tagad tā ir daļa no mācību programmas. Tiešām liekas, ka šī sākotnēji pagrīdes (underground) kustība tagad tiek izmantota vadošajos festivālos un dzejas sekcijās mūzikas festivālos un mākslas centros. Arī šeit, Latvijā, Daugavpilī, dzejas slams bija līdzīgs. Daudz cilvēku, jauni un veci, no dažādiem sociāliem slāņiem spēja parādīt savu balsi. Un nav svarīgi, vai tu māki vai nemāki kārtīgi rakstīt, vai nezini gramatiku, vai kāda tipa dzeju tu raksti. Vienkārši ir jauki dzirdēt daudzu cilvēku viedokļus un balsis, un bailes, un mīlestības.

P.Berders: Tas pieaug eksponenciāli (strauji). Mēs redzam, ka Latvijā un citur pasaulē cilvēki sāk saistīt sevi ar dzeju, atjaunojot saikni ar antīko spoken word tradīciju, kas ir demokrātiska, jo mums visiem ir balsis, mums visiem ir tiesības tikt sadzirdētiem un piedalīties diskusijās ap ugunskuru.

H.Makniša: Man patīk, ka spoken word neignorē klasisko dzeju. Manuprāt, tas ved cilvēkus atpakaļ pie tās. Anglijā sākotnēji starp spoken word un akadēmisko dzeju vai klasisko dzeju bija plaisa. Cilvēki, kas bija ieinteresēti vienā, uzskatīja, ka tā otra nav īsta dzeja. Tagad šie divi dzejas veidi saplūst aizvien vairāk. Jauniešus interesē spoken word - tas liek viņiem lasīt tradicionālās dzejas pārstāvjus.

P.Berders: Aizvien vairāk cilvēku sāk saprast, ka dzeja ir instruments, ar ko var izplatīt ziņas. Mums kā dzejniekiem bieži lūdz uzstāties konferencēs. Ja ir cilvēki, kas runā par konkrētu tēmu, ir noderīgi, ka dzejnieks ar savu uzstāšanos saista citu smadzeņu daļu.


Vai šim mākslas veidam vai jebkuram citam mākslas veidam ir pienākums ietekmēt sabiedrību?

H.Makniša: Domāju, ka nē. Es un Pīts droši vien esam dzejnieki, kas bieži runā par politiskiem jautājumiem. Es runāju par vecāku stāvokli sabiedrībā un mātēm, dzimumu nevienlīdzību un lietām, kas ir personiskas. Pīts runā par klimata izmaiņām. Bet ir daudz dzejnieku, kas raksta absolūti brīnišķīgu dzeju tikai, lai iedvesmotu cilvēkus, nevis runātu par kādu problēmu. Manuprāt, viss ir kaut kādā ziņā politisks, vai ne? Pat tie dzejoļi, ko rakstu par pieskārieniem un mīlestību, savā ziņā ir politiski. Tā tikai šķiet mīlestības lirika, bet tā iespaido sabiedrību. Man patīk klausīties dzeju par politiku, bet tāpat man patīk klausīties dzeju, kas ir vienkārši dzeja, vai abstrakta dzeja vai jebkas cits.

P.Berders: Politika tās patiesākajā formā – tas kā mēs sadzīvojam, kā runājam, diskutējam un nonākam pie lēmuma. Tāpēc var būt attiecību politika, seksuālā politika, mazgāšanās politika. Visas šīs lietas ir svarīgas. Tā vienkārši ir politika par politiku.


Tomēr, vai ir kāds temats, par kuru jums ir grūti rakstīt dzeju un uzstāties?

P.Berders: Tas būtu ļoti introspektīvi. Ir rakstnieki, kas raksta brīnišķīgu materiālu par ļoti emocionālām lietām, un tas ir skaisti, jo viņi veido saikni ar cilvēkiem. Un šie cilvēki ir spējīgi redzēt viņu pašu ciešanas kāda cita ciešanās. Te atkal ir runa par kolektīvo empātiju.

H.Makniša: Katram ir sava vieta. Anglijā ir kāds lielisks dzejnieks, viņš stāsta stāstus par saskarsmi ar draugiem un attiecībām. Ir lieliski klausīties viņā daudzu dažādu iemeslu dēļ, bet tas nav tas, ko rakstu es. Es ar to nedalos. Piemēram, ja kāds Lielbritānijā uzstājas un runā ļoti rasistisku dzejoli vai ko tamlīdzīgu, viņu vienkārši vairs neielūgs uz slamu.

P.Berders: Tā ir ļoti ietveroša mākslas forma. Dažbrīd pat pārāk ietveroša. Bet, jā, tā ir pozitīva - sniegšanās uz āru, saiknes meklēšana. Tāpēc mēs sanākam kopā. Tāpēc cilvēki pamet savus televizora ekrānus un pavada trīs stundas spoken word vakarā. Televīzijā stāsta, ka viņi ir neglīti un nevērtīgi, un ka viņiem būtu jāpērk lietas. Viņi kļūst resnāki un lēnāki, un skumjāki. Un viņi ir mēmi. Un viņi aizmirst, kā pienācīgi runāt, jo viņi pavada četras stundas dienā televizora priekšā.

Es atceros sievieti, kura pienāca pie manis un teica: „Es biju ļoti nomākta šovakar, jo ir ļoti sarežģīti laiki. Es biju nolēmusi skatīties televīziju. Vienkārši sēdēt pie televizora, ēst un būt bēdīga. Bet es nolēmu izvilkt sevi ārā, atnākt šeit un klausīties šos lieliskos dzejniekus, labi pavadīt laiku un smieties kopā ar citiem. Un tā ir lieliska sajūta.”


Vai ir tēmas, par kurām runāt īpaši viegli?

H.Makniša: Nekad nevar zināt, kā cilvēki reaģēs. Es kļūstu vēl nervozāka, ja dalos ar kaut ko, kam auditorija varētu nepiekrist. Bet tieši tas ir iemesls dalīties. Ja es uzrakstu dzejoli par rasismu Apvienotajā Karalistē, es dodu priekšroku uzstāties rasistiskai auditorijai, nevis auditorijai, kas vienkārši man piekristu. Ja es esmu lasījusi dzejoli simts reizes, kļūst nedaudz vieglāk, bet atkal, kad lasu jaunu, ir tikpat grūti kā tad, kad uzstājos pirmoreiz.

P.Berders: Ir viegli rakstīt par to, kam citi piekrīt, bet tādā veidā netiek izaicināti viedokļi un pieņēmumi, netiek sasniegta jauna auditorija. Ja es esmu uz skatuves un runāju „bla bla bla, Džordžs Bušs ir slikts, karš ir slikts,” no tā nekas nemainās. Uz tās pašas skatuves var stāstīt ļoti personisku stāstu par irākiešu zēnu, kas zaudējis roku bumbas sprādzienā, kaut kā savienot to un likt cilvēkiem ieraudzīt makro caur mikro.

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